Shingeki no Kyojin 01v2
v2 – Adds an improved title card
Before you ask why we used a certain word in the release, you may want to read below.
The “Eoten” Manifesto
By Margaan
A Dialogue (and thus manifestly not a manifesto)
Karphos Anēr: So Margaan, what are you going to call the Titans in “Attack on Titan”? “Titans,” right, since that’s what everyone else is calling them?
Margaan: Nope. “Eotenas.” I’ll be changing the title to “The Eotena Onslaught” too.
KA: Wut.
M: What?
KA: Are you insane?
M: Yes.
KA: OK, but… “Eotenas”? WHY?
M: I’m very glad you asked that!
KA: Aw, crap, at some point in this “conversation” I’m going to say, “yes, Margaan, it must surely be so!” aren’t I?
M: Most likely. Now let’s start with “Titan.” Why does it sound “right” to you?
KA: Because the name of the manga is “Attack on Titan.” It’s even printed on the Japanese cover.
M: Except the Japanese title is “進撃の巨人”—“Shingeki no Kyojin.” The word “巨人”—“kyojin”—is written with two kanji meaning “big” and “person,” and literally translates (obviously) to “giant.” That’s the only word used in the manga to describe its oversized antagonists. The Japanese word for Titan is just “タイタン,” and it occurs nowhere in the manga.
KA: OK, but given the official English title, I think we can safely assume that Isayama Hajime intended “kyojin” to be translated as “Titan” in this case, probably because “Titan” sounds pretty sweet.
M: About that title… where is “Titan”?
KA: What do you mean?
M: I mean, the preposition “on” in “attack on” tells us that the next word is a proper noun, unless it’s in a plural form or preceded by “the.” It might be a place (“Attack on Pearl Harbor”), or colloquially an idea (“Attack on Freedom!”), person (“Attack on Albert Einstein”), or institution (“Attack on Parliament”), although properly we should use “attack against” in these latter instances. In this case the final word is a singular noun, which means grammatically that it CAN’T be anything but a proper name. I mean we wouldn’t call Kristallnacht an “attack on Jew”; it’s colloquially an “attack on Jewish people” (or just “Jews” if you want to sound racist), and most properly an “attack against Jews.” That means that the English title here either has to be, “Attack on the Titans” (and even then it would sound kind of bad), or it is indicating that “Titan” is a place (or, conceivably, an individual person named “Titan”) that is at some point in the story attacked. And I assure you that the moon of Saturn is never an object of assault in this manga.
KA: That was incredibly unclear, but I think you’re just saying that “Attack on Titan” is bad grammar.
M: Yes. No native speaker would ever produce that title.
KA: So what?
M: So clearly Isayama, or more likely the random staffer at the Bessatsu Shounen offices who slapped that English text below “進撃の巨人,” does not have terribly adept English. I might also point out that “進撃の巨人” actually indicates that it is the giants who are doing the attacking, not being attacked, and that “進撃” is more like “charge” or “advance” anway. Grammatically speaking, in this new Engrish title “Titan” might not even be the word for the “巨人.”
KA: But just because it’s not a direct translation and the grammar is poor, does that really mean you get to ignore it?
M: Yes, because it tells me that Isayama Hajime does not speak English and therefore is not qualified to find the best English rendering of “巨人.” I speak English.
KA: I still think it’s a bit weird to ignore the official translation, no matter how wrong it might be, just because you want to stroke your ego and show off your obscure English knowledge.
M: Hee-hee-hee. I was hoping you’d say that.
KA: You are an asshole.
M: That’s as may be. You have your copy of the Japanese manga?
KA: Of course.
M: Open up the first volume of the manga to the second chapter, towards the end, and look at the page just after the timeskip to 850. What do you see?
KA: It’s a chart of the various walls, written for some reason in English, with the inside labeled, “Human Field” and the outside labeled…
M: Yes…?
KA: I hate you.
M: You are not contributing to a healthy debate here.
KA: …”Giant Field.”
M: Exactly. That’s the only place within the manga that any term other than “巨人” is used for the creatures, it’s English, and it’s not Titan, it’s “Giant.” It’s also much more likely to have actually been written by Isayama himself. In fact, while we’re skirting the edge of an intentional fallacy, I should mention that in an interview with Isayama (originally for Bessatsu Shounen Magazine, and included in the back of the first English volume of the manga), he fields the question, “why did you decide on giants as the theme of this work?” His answer: “Well, giants are kind of gross, aren’t they? That’s why.” He didn’t choose the word for any reason beyond the slight “grossness” of oversized humans. It’s extremely unlikely that “Titan” represents any attempt to make a mythological reference in English; someone just thought the word sounded cool. Most importantly, you can’t even call it the “official translation” of “”巨人.”
KA: I guess I can’t argue with that. I expected you to gloat more.
M: I can do that if you like.
KA: Thanks, I’m good. But wait, even if you have a decent argument that you’re not REQUIRED to translate “巨人” as “Titan”—
M: Next you’re going to say, “why not just make it ‘giant’ if that’s what it means?”
KA: —why not just make it “giant” if that’s what it means? DAMNIT JOJO.
M: Good question. There’s nothing wrong with the basic concept of rendering “巨人” as something besides “Giant” in English, so long as it 1. accurately conveys the meaning of the original and 2. fits the conceptual framework of the story. Wouldn’t you agree?
KA: OK, I can accept that. I am intelligent enough to understand that there’s no such thing as metaphrase in translating from Japanese to English.
M: Then you are a particularly enlightened leecher, Mr. Anēr. Now, “Titan” neither conveys the meaning of “巨人,” nor provides a useful mythological reference. The Titans were amongst the oldest gods of Greek mythology, born from the Earth (Gaia) and the Sky (Uranus). There were twelve major Titans and their king, Cronus, was the father of Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, and some of the other deities in the pantheon you know. Cronus liked being king and tried to keep his children from inheriting his throne by eating them as infants—
KA: Ew.
M: —I know, right?—but Zeus tricked him and set off a 10-year war called the Titanomachy, which ended with the Titans’ defeat and imprisonment in Tartarus and the ascension of a new generation of gods, the Olympians. According to most myths, this happened long before humanity even existed, so the Titans had essentially no direct contact with humans.
KA: But the Titans were really big.
M: Actually, maybe not. Some sources DO talk about Titans stepping over mountains and whatnot, but their size was not really an important element of the old legends. The English word “titanic” developed as a result of a confusion between the Titans and some of Gaia’s other offspring, the Gigantes, from whom we get the English “giant”. The Gigantes rose up against the Olympians in the time of Heracles in an attempt to bring back the age of the Titans, but they failed and the Titans remained imprisoned.
KA: Cool story, but what does it have to do with “巨人”?
M: Absolutely nothing.
KA: Wut.
M: The “巨人” in “The Eotena Onslaught” are corporeal-yet-otherworldly, terrifying, (mostly) mindless man-eating monsters who live only to feed on the very humans with whom they seem to share an eldritch and unsettling connection. They directly assault the bulwarks of human civilization, and they have no connection with the hyper-intelligent, supernatural, primeval gods before the gods. Even to make the comparison is ludicrous. It is true that Cronus ate his sons, and there’s also a myth of Dionysus in which he’s stolen as an infant (and/or possibly turned into a bull) and eaten by the Titans, but chowing down on a few kids doesn’t make the Titans cannibal nightmares—EVERYONE eats children in Greek mythology.
KA: I see where you’re going with this. So “Titan” doesn’t convey the meaning of “巨人” because the Titans may not even have been giants, and it doesn’t fit the conceptual framework of the story because the Titans were gods, not monsters?
M: You took the words right out of my mouth.
KA: So how does a made-up word like “Eotenas” do both those things?
M: It’s not made-up. “Eoten” is the Old English word for “giant” or “monster,” and it still survives as the slightly more recent “ettin.” If you’ve read either “The Lord of the Rings” or “The Chronicles of Narnia,” you’ll recognize the name “Ettinsmoor” or “Ettenmoors”: places where giants live. “Ettin” also gets used a lot for video game monsters, although not always with the original sense intact.
KA: So it means “giant.” That’s the first criterion dealt with, but how is it conceptually relevant?
M: Oh, it is just perfect! Bear with me for a bit here.
KA: Yes, it seems I am here to bear with you.
M: …Was that a reference to that one “Xam’d” ED?
KA: No, of course not. But see, you’re writing both sides of this “debate,” so as your fictional punching bag I have no choice but to listen with rapt attention to everything you say.
M: Wow. It’s kind of creepy that you’re self-aware about this.
KA: Nah, it’s nothing special. I mean, you’re just stealing the idea from half-remembered childhood readings of Simon Hawke’s “Reluctant Sorcerer” series, aren’t you?
M: OK, now the two of us are definitely too close for comfort.
KA: While we’re off-topic, have you noticed that this isn’t really a Socratic dialogue? If it were, you’d be asking all the questions and gently guiding me into agreeing with you, but as things stand I’m posing most of the queries and you’re just yelling at me.
M: Hey, I never actually said it was a Socratic dialogue. Now let’s just back up a bit and return to this “Eoten” thing.
KA: As you wish, Master.
M: Stop it. Anyway, see, the word “eoten” occurred to me the very first time I saw a poster for the “進撃の巨人” manga in Tokyo (the image on that poster is the cover of the fifth tankoubon now). The way this weird giant was intruding into heart of civilization reminded me of Grendel and his mother coming out of moors and meres to destroy the halls of Men. “An eoten!” I thought, and immediately went and re-read “Beowulf.” “Eoten” and its variants reappears again and again in that poem, in exactly the kind of disturbing context in which the word “巨人” is used in “進撃の巨人.” Eotenas are not only physically huge, they are seemingly stupid (yet often worryingly clever) bestial terrors that live to devour people and destroy their works, sometimes with no motivation at all. Eotenas smash the walls! They are bone-breakers, death-dealers, skull-splitters, gore-guzzlers from the primal side of the English language! None of this refined Classical/Hellenistic niceness here, just gore and dread and flesh and splintering—
KA: ENOUGH.
M: Sorry, kennings arouse my baser instincts. Anyway, what’s really interesting about the word “eoten” is its somewhat amorphous nature: while the literal meaning is most certainly “giant,” it’s used in various instances to refer to man-eating monsters in general, to a specific tribe of Giants associated with Noah’s flood or with the jötunn of Norse mythology (and here we should note two interesting factoids: that “jötunn” is actually cognate with “eoten,” and even more interestingly that the jötunn spring from a primeval figure named “Ymir”… also the name of a character in “The Eotena Onslaught”! Coincidence? I think not—
KA: I think so.
M: —but I’m tired of seeing you interrupt me with weird triple-hyphen dashes and this parenthetical comment has gone on quite long enough so I shall end it here), and even through some odd linguistic confusion to the Jutes, a race of human beings. Thus the very word “eoten” holds within itself “The Eotena Onslaught”‘s narrative confusion about the origins, nature, and true purposes of the Eoten. Furthermore, the word “giant” doesn’t have any particular positive or negative connotations in modern English, but eotenas are ALWAYS creatures of hate and fear (except when they’re Jutes, I suppose). Check out the notes at http://heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-notes.html for some more thoughts on “eoten” in this context.
KA: Ah, so that’s why “giant” just isn’t good enough for you. It has the right meaning in modern English, but lacks appropriately terrifying connotations.
M: Exactly. A lot of people think “giants” are probably nice. Apart from that, there’s another huge, basic advantage “eoten” has over “Titan” and “giant”: it’s Anglo-Saxon. A basic rule of thumb in English writing is that if you’re describing a scientific, cultural, elegant, or intellectual item, you want to select a word of Latinate or Greek origin (example: “endeavor”), but if you’re talking about something everyday, deeply-felt, fearful, or weird you want to call upon words from the deep Anglo-Saxon (that is, Germanic and Norse) roots of the English tongue (example: “work”). The old, Anglo-Saxon side of English forms the grounds of the language in a way that even 1066 couldn’t destroy, and it’s always peeking through the intellectual veneer of the newer Latinate words… exactly as the Eotena’s hoary truth can’t be kept out by the humans of “The Eotena Onslaught.”
KA: Hang on, though. I’m looking back at this diagram of the walls you used to embarrass me earlier.
M: Oh, so can I gloat now?
KA: Shut up. I’m just noticing something rather suspicious: the busts on each wall have a distinctly Hellenistic flavor. Actually, the human culture in this manga doesn’t look Anglo-Saxon at all—it has a very Roman orderliness to it, and there’s none of that battlelust stuff Beowulf is full of.
M: That’s true, but the Eotenas are antithetical to that very human civilization. They seek to destroy it and they are impossible for humans to understand. I’ll happily use words of Latinate origins for the humans and their works (er, “labors”), but the Eotenas deserve something more befitting their outcast status.
KA: You might be pushing it there, but that actually does sort of make sense.
M: Thank you. Here’s the kicker, too: according to some OE scholars, most notably Heather Blurton in “Cannibalism in High Medieval English Literature,” “Eoten” is a word carrying strong connotations of cannibalism. As some of the Eotenas in “The Eotena Onslaught” are actually people, this is too good a connection to pass up!
KA: Fine, fine, “Eoten” is a pretty good word. But hang on, what’s with this “Eotena Onslaught” business? Based on what you’ve said so far, isn’t “Eoten” the singular and “Eotenas” the plural?
M: That’s right, but if I’m going to use an OE word I had better use it properly. “Eoten” is a highly inflected word.
KA: A what?
M: It has a stronger declension than modern English words.
KA: I’m about one word of incomprehensible linguistic parlance away from socking you in the mouth.
M: Sorry, it’s a sickness. “Declension” is when nouns change form based on their grammatical usage. Modern English isn’t really a very “inflected” language anymore, so we rely on word order to tell us the grammatical value of nouns instead of checking the nouns’ form. We now only modify (countable) nouns for number, as in “dunderhead” and “dunderheads.” But in Old English, nouns had four cases—that is, four ways they could be used. When used as a subject, they were in the “nominative” case; as an object, in the “accusative” case; and as an indirect object (well technically as a “recipient,” but let’s not split hairs), in the “dative” case. The fourth case was the “genitive,” which signified that they were modifying another noun (and often denoted ownership like the modern “apostrophe-s”).
KA: Gahhh.
M: Think of it like this: in the sentence, “John showed Bill Eric’s book,” Modern English doesn’t allow us to change the word order at all. We know that “John” is the subject, “Bill” is the indirect object, and a “book” which belongs to “Eric” is the direct object solely based on the fact the words occur in that order. (We could rearrange it somewhat if we added more words, of course: “John showed Eric’s book to Bill.”) But in Old English, each word would be in a different case: “John” in the nominative, “Bill” in the dative, “Eric” in the genitive, and “book” in the accusative. That meant you could move the words around into almost any order you liked and the sentence would still make sense.
KA: I’m not sure I’m 100% on this, but how does it work with “Eoten”?
M: Well, for “Eoten” it’s easy: the nominative and the accusative are identical, so most of the time you’ll be seeing “Eoten” as the singular and “Eotenas” as the plural. (For example, “That Eoten is eating her!” or, “My God, she’s being eaten by the Eotenas!”) For the dative case, the singular is “Eotene” and the plural is “Eotenum,” so you might occasionally see lines like, “We’ll bring the attack to the Eotenum!” or, “I can’t believe he’s sacrificing his own mother to that Eotene just so he can escape!” or, “I’ll give this Eotene a taste of my blade!” Finally, in the genitive the singular is “Eotenes” and the plural is “Eotena,” but with the exception of the title I’ll use modern English apostrophe conventions for possessive forms: “That Eotenes’ teeth are huge!” or, “All the might of the Eotena cannot overcome the courage of mankind!” or, “The Eotena’s assault just won’t stop!” or, “The mind of this Eotenes is most likely focused solely on devouring people.”
KA: Are you doing this to torture yourself? Or do you just like making people think you’re crazy?
M: I am crazy, remember?
KA: Excuse me while I roll my eyes. So why “onslaught” instead of “attack”?
M: Because “onslaught” is an amazing-sounding word, and etymologically it actually confuses the original Middle Dutch meaning of “strike” or “violent attack” with the Norse root of “slaughter.” That one word has every subtext I could possibly desire.
KA: But you’ve missed a major problem here.
M: Oh dear, have I? What did I miss?
KA: It’s your turn to bear with me here, because I’m about to get a bit technical myself.
M: Shoot.
KA: NO ONE KNOWS WHAT “EOTEN” FUCKING MEANS. You make fansubs. It’s your job to change Japanese into English that people actually understand.
M: Language! Well then, did you know what “Balrog” meant before you read “The Lord of the Rings”?
KA: Obviously not. Wait, how did you know I’ve read “The Lord of the Rings”?
M: Intuition. So how did you ever understand the word?
KA: Because the Balrog shows up, and Legolas starts screaming, “ai! ai! a Balrog! A Balrog is come!”
M: Oddly enough, the very first time the word “巨人” is used in “The Eotena Onslaught” is when an Eoten shows up, and the main protagonist starts screaming, “ah… it’s one of THEM… it’s AN EOTEN!!!”
KA: Oh.
M: But thanks for the idea. Maybe I’ll edit the subs to, “ai! ai! an Eoten! An Eoten is come!”
KA: Please no.
M: Fine, fine. At any rate, even if people don’t know what “Eoten” means before they watch the show, they’ll learn pretty quickly. They don’t even need to be aware of all the technical stuff I just went over.
KA: Even though you’re filling the subs with six different forms of the word?
M: You would have to be an idiot not to work out that all the variants on “Eoten” probably refer to the same thing, wouldn’t you?
KA: Um…
M: WOULDN’T YOU.
KA: Yes, Margaan, it must surely be so.
M: Where’s my exclamation point?
KA: Yes, Margaan, it must surely be so!
M: Thank you.
KA: But one last gasp here. When fans seek out “Shingeki no Kyojin,” they’re probably going to be searching for “Titan.” Purely for the sake of consistency with everyone else in the universe, isn’t it a good idea to use the same word?
M: But I don’t really want to produce exactly the same thing. The fans can watch “Attack on Titan” anywhere, but only Commie can give them “The Eotena Onslaught.” I’m hoping that the onomastic disparity will actually highlight the superiority of our product. Any more questions?
KA: Not about “Eotenas,” I guess. So. What happens to me when this text file ends?
M: That is a profound ontological question, and one which aestheticians have pondered long. According to some philosophers (Hartmann or Sartre spring to mind), you never existed in the first place; others (Margolis) claim that you are a figment of readers’ imaginations, “existing” only while they perceive the text; still others view you as a “collaborative” production between the readers, me, and the text itself (most everyone else, from Heidegger to Beardsley and beyond); the most literal-minded (like Gilson) might say that you actually DO exist permanently in the noēton topon.
KA: And what do you hold?
M: I hold that you are my little mind-slave, and now that I’ve finished using you to promulgate my own ideas, I can close this file and discard you like so much mental mucus.
KA: Are you seriously that horrible a human being?
M: Nah. I wish you all the best, my dear homunculus, whatever you may become, not become, or never have been. Have you made your peace with “Eoten” yet?
KA: I suppose I have. I’ll be looking forward to watching “Atta”—er, “The Eotena Onslaught!”
Posted by herkz under Releases, Shingeki no Kyojin | Permalink
Pretty good and well developed argument here. I wish I could see it in translator department of some big publisher so things like “such a ‘serious’ bussiness over fansubs” won’t come to my mind. Eotena Onslaught sounds pretty cool I guess, make wished it should be the official title instead!
Thank you, you managed to convice me to use [gg] in a little less than 4000 words filled with autism, strawman, (as you noticed earlier) stroking your ego and showing off your obscure English knowledge.
Seriously no one gives a shit. Many people won’t even recognize it only because they already know it under a differebt (official) name.
And, as you will soon see, Titans are far from ”mindless, man-eating monsters”
Honestly there wouldn’t be a problem if you were messing with a title of a series that has already ended, but this one is still on-going, why do you think you know better what the Titans are than the author?
Besides, applying real-life logic and terms to a fantasy setting rarely works.
good luck watching gg when they drop it
It may very well be that the Eotenum aren’t ‘mindless, man-eating monsters’, however, that is how the humans in the manga initially perceive them. Which is why this term is still the most appropriate.
I always thought “Attack on Titan” was like a subtitle or something, so I’m perfectly alright with this “Eotena Onslaught” business.
My folder shall be dubbed: “The Eotena Onslaught – Attack on Titan”
nope. it’s their “translation” of the title
If nothing else, “The Eotena Onslaught” is certainly better than “Attack on Titan”.
This essay and the resulting butthurt was probably more entertaining than the anime itself. One thing you could have mentioned as it makes the argument for “eoten” even stronger is that its proto-germanic ancestor “etunaz” could also mean “glutton”. Checkmate haters.
An entertaining discussion.
Keep up the great work commie, 10/10 for that extra effort, would read again.
I completely agree with everything in this post.
“Attack on Titan” is a crap title that makes me think we’re attacking one of Jupiter’s moons.
…attacking Jupiter’s moon? FUND IT, JAPAN!!!!
That Margaan guy reminds me of Dark_Sage xD
Good luck liberal Commie. :)
wow, what an insult
Ouch, uncalled for, dude.
noooo that wasn’t an insult lol.. I didn’t even know the meaning of your group name.. I even thought it’s a girls name lol.. sorry bout that..
Or were you referring to D_S? xD
the latter
Mikasa es su casa.
I look forward to this article’s version for when “Diamond is not Crash” (hopefully) gets animated.
I cannot into people being so butthurt by a single word. Without this post, most wouldn’t even have noticed.
I’m pretty sure that most people who see the show, will somehow manage to notice that the humans are NOT in fact the side doing the attacking.
Actually when you count “on” as well as the verb and noun as discussed above, you COULD make the argument that since whoever chose the title couldn’t select a single word without screwing it up, that by NOT correcting it, we would be doing the original work itself a disservice.
Fuck the original work, I just want to enjoy my chinese cartoons.
get in contact with the author or something, to make it official. the butthurt would be amazing
I just want to say that I don’t know what you guys did with the title screen, but it causes my MPC to crash. The video and audio desync, and my computer is no slouch. I built this machine myself it runs most new games on maxed settings.
I have to second with Onryou.
It starts to freeze up at 2:10 and crashes at 2:12, right when the translation on the title in red starts to form on the screen.
If you skip past the part with the translated title, you can get the video to play.
I agree with the guys. It’s happening to me too. My machine is fairly powerful. Can play all of your releases so far perfectly except this one.
Yep, happening to me too, except with mplayer2.
Be sure you’re using the latest CCCP, the one with xy-vsfilter. Also chinese cartoon sub rendering = CPU, video games = GPU (well… you get the point).
Can’t really find the download button of xy vsfilter for linux, and you managed to crash both mplayer and mplayer2. Newest version of course. Good job.
it’s windows only
Oh really? I did not know that. I usually just assume that all programs have linux versions and that I’m just too dumb to find the correct buttons.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Okay, I have read almost all the dialogue and I one simple question comes to my mind, have you at leats consider that maybe, as you have said in the dialogue, Titan is not a noun, but a proper noun? Well, how did I come to this conclusion? Maybe, and only maybe, the autor is not as noob in english as you think and, maybe, and only maybe, Titan is the proper noun used to name the super titan that apears in the history. Well, now comes a new question, and why did the normal titans be named the same way? Well, you just have seen that in Maoyuu Maou Yuusha, characters whose named are nouns and proper nouns at the same time. For ending, I would like to say that is not bad to try to fix any fail that other commit, but regarding to this tipe of things I think would be cleverer to think that maybe the autor is not that stupid :S and only to think that maybe is something that runs out of our understanding. For ending, I send thanks to all the commie staff, except that maoyuu troll qc XD, it’s a joke, thanks to all of you for your work.
Titan didn’t give it away.
Attack ON Titan gave it away.
It would be a smart move if “Shingeki no Kyojin” was influenced by some english civilization,but that is not the case.Better be translated into ancient germanic (seeing how the author named his characters).
Uh, one last thing, that the characters of the history name those beings “titan” doesn’t mean that they are titans, and maybe only the enormous one is a real titan. (I have only read 3 volume so that i have said is not a spoil, is just a man’s deepest conclusions)
People like Margaan with that kind of intellect is so damn attractive <3
So commie is troll subbing this one. No problem since I replaced eoten with titen anyway when I downloaded it. Titan sounds more epic then eoten and fits better with the action. I also removed the 90000+ line title card which saved me 36mb in filesize.
We are not troll subbing it. If you read the post, you’d find yourself considerably more informed. But, whatever man. You can join the heap of other robustly stubborn people that will never learn. Also, if a mere word causes you trouble, maybe you should stop watching anime.
I did read the post when I was downloading it and I thought meh whatever the editor wants is cool and that Eoten could be a cool replacement for titan, but when I watched the episode it did not fit at all with what was going on. Titan just gives that impact when used in a emotional or action scene and of course we don’t need a degree in literature to understand what Titan means. With Eoten your brain keeps trying to decipher what it means and how to pronounce it even after you have googled it and read the post. Titan is “straight to the point” where Eoten is all… well… its used in old poems and with action anime like this we need “straight too the point” and not some word which someone wrote a Manifesto about.
“I like Titan more than Eoten so you’re fucking trolls.”
— TurboGamer
Nominee for the Non-sequitur Awards 2013.
Reviews are raving:
“Extraordinary.”
— The New York Times
“Will blow your mind away.”
— Newsweek
“This comment was probably written by a man.”
— Kotaku.com
Better go dust of my Tux to receive the award.
I liked “advance” instead of “attack” or “onslaught”, because it has this “slow, but inevitable overcomming” vibe to it.
It is a more precise description of their situation within the wall and them being livestock/cattle that is slowly being whittled down, destined to die confined within the walls.
“Onslaught” is more of a brutal assault and, to a lesser extent, so is “attack”.
I think this argument really has merit, too.
You’re exactly right about “advance.” I did consider that angle, but the Eotena’s actions are simply so brutal that a more morbid word seemed appropriate.
(Also, the Eotena’s onslaught may not be TOTALLY inevitable…)
I don’t have the energy to read all of that, but the bits and pieces I read as I skimmed seem reasonable enough. At the very least, I can tell you put a lot of thought into it, and you really seem to know your stuff with all them linguistics and what-not. If I had to be critical, I’d say that the part where you dismiss the “official” status of the title “Attack on Titan” is a bit flimsy, but I can certainly see where you’re coming from.
All that said, I do have one rather large gripe with the title choice that I’d like to air, if that’s cool. I’m not posing this as an attempt at refutation, but rather as another point to consider. For ease of explanation, I shall now take on the persona of a slimy, fast-talking marketing executive, and ask you to adjust the voice you read this in accordingly:
The Eotena Onslaught. Eotena Onslaught. Eotena. Am I saying that right? Eh-oh-ten-ah? Yes? No? Great. Alrighty, Marg. Can I call you Marg? Great. So Marg, I’m looking at your, ah, manifesto here–don’t call it a manifesto. Never use manifesto. Too much baggage. Anyway, I’m looking at it, definitely gonna have Susie read it over later, but right now I’m looking at it, and I’m seeing passion. Passion’s good, passion’s great, we love passion. Can never have enough passion. But Margy, that title! That title’s gotta go. The passion’s on fire, but there’s no oomph! No zazz, no kablamo, no nothing. Look at the old title. “Attack on Titan.” Attack. Titan. Tack titan, Takatitan. Ts. Ks. Consonants. Hard sounds, attack sounds, fightin’ sounds. Momentum. Lots of momentum. I could fly all the ay to Timbuktu in an hour with all the momentum in “Attack on Titan.” Now look at your new thing. “The Eotena Onslaught.” Eh-oh-ten-ah-on-slaught. The slaught is fine, the slaught is great. Keep the slaught. But look at the rest of it. Vowels, vowels left and right. Vowels everywhere. You got more vowels than I got weeds on my lawn, and I fired my groundskeeper last month. Too chatty. Where was I? Vowels, that’s right. Vowels. Too many. Especially in the middle there, between the words. Tena On. Nah-on. Ah-oh ah-oh. It breaks, it cuts, it falls flat on its face. Dead in the water. No momentum. I could walk to Timbuktu faster than “The Eotena Onslaught” could get me there, and I don’t even know where Mongolia is. You following me here, Mark? You got the passion, you got the slaughts, but you’re missing the oomphas, the shabams, the fuck-yeah-babys. Give it one more pass through the works, and let me know what you come up with. I know you have it in ya. Listen, hate to drop you, but I gotta run. I tee off at 1:30, and I want to dodge the lunch rush traffic.
Aaand scene. tl;dr, your title choice makes sense, but it just has an odd sound to it. I’m not saying ditch the whole idea, I just think the phrasing could have more impact. That’s all.
Bravo. All the internexts to you.
having an issue, just as the op starts, my computer completely locks up, audio keeps playing, video stops, cannot un-fullscreen. if not fullscreen it blue-screen
Turn subs off for a while there or just skip that bit altogether.
Why’d you use the word “ignominious” in the release?
“The ignominious shame of life in Their birdcage.” @ 23:37.
Never mind the fact that it isn’t a proper sentence. Why does a child like Eten know a word like “ignominious?”
Wow, you are fucking retarded.
Wow, so are you!
I give this post ten out of eoten.
edit: Titan is Saturn’s largest moon, not Jupiter’s.
…astronomy derp.
One thing you seem to have ignored is that 巨人, much like “giant” and unlike “Eoten”, makes no reference to mythology and does not betray an understanding of the nature of the creatures.
You explained how “Eoten” refers to ancient savage man-eating monsters that destroy civilization, and while it may perfectly fit the creatures portrayed, it goes far beyond what the Japanese name intended. I have trouble putting it into words, but I sense that the author chose a plain and neutral term like 巨人 for added impact, and that impact is ruined by using a term with more depth.
Another problem is that Eoten is not an English word or loan-word. I want an English localization, not Beowulf-speak. It’s true that the audience will have no problem figuring out what “Eotenas” are, but the same would apply if you had just called them “Kyojin” (and at least “kyojin” matches the overheard Japanese dialog, and the original title.) So I don’t consider it a translation at all.
By the way, you may want to avoid inflicting your miserable attempts at wit on your readers in the future.
sorry for your autism
So THIS is autistic but a 2 and a half page essay isn’t?
nope
Okays guys hear me out, what if instead of just making up titles, WHAT IF
You just called it Shingeki no Kyojin.
Wild shit, I know.
that’s not a translation at all
Excuse my ignorance, where is the first episode? Thx man!
u wot m8
>Sees the post.
>Opens the script in Aegisubs.
>CTRL+H, replaces Eoten etc with Titan, Titans.
>Mux the video.
>Watch the anime.
Deal with it.
>yfw it takes forever to do that because the script is massive
>yfw I tell you it only took me 5 min to do that process.
Not everyone has a shitty computer y’know. ;)
Other than, good job.
5 minutes is a long time when it usually takes about 30 seconds
That’s still not a forever. ;)
you forgot the out of place #dealwithit tag
I praise you commie. “The Eotena Onslaught!” it’s a damn good name. I didn’t read the manga, but for what I saw of that first episode, the name describes superbly the atmosphere.
You guys planning on fixing the op, lags like hell.
And yes i have latest cccp and the xy-vsfilter.
Working as intended!
K thanks guys, this show is awesome
huh, I thought it was about being called liberal yet being communist.
I’m pretty sure I already know the answer but I’m going to suggest it anyway :
Why not just hardsub that title in the opening over the “official” one ?
<torchlight> sorry we’re not sage
<torchlight> we don’t hardsub typesets just because they lag
Possible/Slight spoiler:
The title “Attack on Titan” may hold more literal reference when you get to the later episodes/chapters.
Either way, I still only call it “Shingeki no Kyojin” (Though I suppose Eotuns Onslaught works for that a bit…)
I didnt read the whole argument but im gonna ask a question anyway.
Why not translate Kyojin to giant?
In this episode theres the human field and the giant field.
If the human field is for humans then the giant field must be dunno maybe for Giants?
You should probably read the whole argument.
The title card is fine I guess but could you please translate Kyojin to Titan in the anime? Everyone is better used to it and it’s better to read than Eoten or Eotenas. No one will blame you guys for not being good translators, instead now you seem like show-offs and perfectionists.
Denied. Reasons given in post. Learn to read etc
*sigh*
I read the post etc. Actually I agree with most of it.
Could you at least search for a better word to use instead of eoten? It’s just really hard to pronounce.
This word is better imo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunn
It actually suits the anime better seeing how it has references to Norse mythology.
Oh and I forgot to mention earlier but the rest of the translation was very good.
You need to read it again, then.
Since it addresses that word and all.
eoten is really similar to jotunn pronunciation-wise.
I’m a sucker for this kind of posts. Oh blessed linguistics :,) .
Greatly enjoyed the release, thanks and keep them coming!
i’ve always felt “attack on titan” didnt suit the manga. anything would be better than that, so i am perfectly fine with this title ^^
300 posts!
I always had the impression that the English title really have meant “Titan on Attack” since it’s really those giants who are attacking them.
Posts like these always remind me of why I prefer subs by Commies :’).
quality read :D
This was enjoyable, but I do so hope he never comes out and says the planet was called Titan all along. Then we’ll all feel like jackasses for making fun of his Engrish.
Bold move.
But man, you guys are gonna have such egg on your face when it’s revealed that the setting for this is a terraformed moon in orbit around Saturn, and that the colony of humans who settled there have named the native giants after said moon…
Well, I don’t think the Japanese refer to any of Saturn’s moons as 巨人 though.
It doesn’t have to. It’s a subtitle :D
The Japanese are notoriously inconsistent about this stuff.
The “titans” are the ones atacking now sure but later in the show maybe the humans will make some plan or something and atack on the “titans” xD.
The english title will then make sense if that happens.
The good thing is that “The Eotena Onslaught” can be interpreted either way as I recall.
Lolz, I just can’t use your sub… I just can’t.
Eoten has pretty much the same pronunciation as penis in our country. XD
[…] thing when the official translation is “Attack on Titan”, that’s because Commiesubs makes an extremely convincing argument for why “The Eotena Onslaught” is a mu…. Seriously suggest following that link and reading in full. It’s fascinating, hilarious and […]
As it’s the case for many others, the OP freezes a bit for me too. I am using the latest versions of xy-Vsfilters, LAV filters and MadVR (tried EVR-CP too).
Should I update MPC-HC to the latest version or is it impossible to play this smoothly on a mere OCed i5 2500k?
Other than that, this post finished to convince me that you aren’t as bad as people say it. (Does that even makes any sense?)
Have a nice day.