Shingeki no Kyojin 01v2
v2 – Adds an improved title card
Before you ask why we used a certain word in the release, you may want to read below.
The “Eoten” Manifesto
By Margaan
A Dialogue (and thus manifestly not a manifesto)
Karphos Anēr: So Margaan, what are you going to call the Titans in “Attack on Titan”? “Titans,” right, since that’s what everyone else is calling them?
Margaan: Nope. “Eotenas.” I’ll be changing the title to “The Eotena Onslaught” too.
KA: Wut.
M: What?
KA: Are you insane?
M: Yes.
KA: OK, but… “Eotenas”? WHY?
M: I’m very glad you asked that!
KA: Aw, crap, at some point in this “conversation” I’m going to say, “yes, Margaan, it must surely be so!” aren’t I?
M: Most likely. Now let’s start with “Titan.” Why does it sound “right” to you?
KA: Because the name of the manga is “Attack on Titan.” It’s even printed on the Japanese cover.
M: Except the Japanese title is “進撃の巨人”—“Shingeki no Kyojin.” The word “巨人”—“kyojin”—is written with two kanji meaning “big” and “person,” and literally translates (obviously) to “giant.” That’s the only word used in the manga to describe its oversized antagonists. The Japanese word for Titan is just “タイタン,” and it occurs nowhere in the manga.
KA: OK, but given the official English title, I think we can safely assume that Isayama Hajime intended “kyojin” to be translated as “Titan” in this case, probably because “Titan” sounds pretty sweet.
M: About that title… where is “Titan”?
KA: What do you mean?
M: I mean, the preposition “on” in “attack on” tells us that the next word is a proper noun, unless it’s in a plural form or preceded by “the.” It might be a place (“Attack on Pearl Harbor”), or colloquially an idea (“Attack on Freedom!”), person (“Attack on Albert Einstein”), or institution (“Attack on Parliament”), although properly we should use “attack against” in these latter instances. In this case the final word is a singular noun, which means grammatically that it CAN’T be anything but a proper name. I mean we wouldn’t call Kristallnacht an “attack on Jew”; it’s colloquially an “attack on Jewish people” (or just “Jews” if you want to sound racist), and most properly an “attack against Jews.” That means that the English title here either has to be, “Attack on the Titans” (and even then it would sound kind of bad), or it is indicating that “Titan” is a place (or, conceivably, an individual person named “Titan”) that is at some point in the story attacked. And I assure you that the moon of Saturn is never an object of assault in this manga.
KA: That was incredibly unclear, but I think you’re just saying that “Attack on Titan” is bad grammar.
M: Yes. No native speaker would ever produce that title.
KA: So what?
M: So clearly Isayama, or more likely the random staffer at the Bessatsu Shounen offices who slapped that English text below “進撃の巨人,” does not have terribly adept English. I might also point out that “進撃の巨人” actually indicates that it is the giants who are doing the attacking, not being attacked, and that “進撃” is more like “charge” or “advance” anway. Grammatically speaking, in this new Engrish title “Titan” might not even be the word for the “巨人.”
KA: But just because it’s not a direct translation and the grammar is poor, does that really mean you get to ignore it?
M: Yes, because it tells me that Isayama Hajime does not speak English and therefore is not qualified to find the best English rendering of “巨人.” I speak English.
KA: I still think it’s a bit weird to ignore the official translation, no matter how wrong it might be, just because you want to stroke your ego and show off your obscure English knowledge.
M: Hee-hee-hee. I was hoping you’d say that.
KA: You are an asshole.
M: That’s as may be. You have your copy of the Japanese manga?
KA: Of course.
M: Open up the first volume of the manga to the second chapter, towards the end, and look at the page just after the timeskip to 850. What do you see?
KA: It’s a chart of the various walls, written for some reason in English, with the inside labeled, “Human Field” and the outside labeled…
M: Yes…?
KA: I hate you.
M: You are not contributing to a healthy debate here.
KA: …”Giant Field.”
M: Exactly. That’s the only place within the manga that any term other than “巨人” is used for the creatures, it’s English, and it’s not Titan, it’s “Giant.” It’s also much more likely to have actually been written by Isayama himself. In fact, while we’re skirting the edge of an intentional fallacy, I should mention that in an interview with Isayama (originally for Bessatsu Shounen Magazine, and included in the back of the first English volume of the manga), he fields the question, “why did you decide on giants as the theme of this work?” His answer: “Well, giants are kind of gross, aren’t they? That’s why.” He didn’t choose the word for any reason beyond the slight “grossness” of oversized humans. It’s extremely unlikely that “Titan” represents any attempt to make a mythological reference in English; someone just thought the word sounded cool. Most importantly, you can’t even call it the “official translation” of “”巨人.”
KA: I guess I can’t argue with that. I expected you to gloat more.
M: I can do that if you like.
KA: Thanks, I’m good. But wait, even if you have a decent argument that you’re not REQUIRED to translate “巨人” as “Titan”—
M: Next you’re going to say, “why not just make it ‘giant’ if that’s what it means?”
KA: —why not just make it “giant” if that’s what it means? DAMNIT JOJO.
M: Good question. There’s nothing wrong with the basic concept of rendering “巨人” as something besides “Giant” in English, so long as it 1. accurately conveys the meaning of the original and 2. fits the conceptual framework of the story. Wouldn’t you agree?
KA: OK, I can accept that. I am intelligent enough to understand that there’s no such thing as metaphrase in translating from Japanese to English.
M: Then you are a particularly enlightened leecher, Mr. Anēr. Now, “Titan” neither conveys the meaning of “巨人,” nor provides a useful mythological reference. The Titans were amongst the oldest gods of Greek mythology, born from the Earth (Gaia) and the Sky (Uranus). There were twelve major Titans and their king, Cronus, was the father of Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, and some of the other deities in the pantheon you know. Cronus liked being king and tried to keep his children from inheriting his throne by eating them as infants—
KA: Ew.
M: —I know, right?—but Zeus tricked him and set off a 10-year war called the Titanomachy, which ended with the Titans’ defeat and imprisonment in Tartarus and the ascension of a new generation of gods, the Olympians. According to most myths, this happened long before humanity even existed, so the Titans had essentially no direct contact with humans.
KA: But the Titans were really big.
M: Actually, maybe not. Some sources DO talk about Titans stepping over mountains and whatnot, but their size was not really an important element of the old legends. The English word “titanic” developed as a result of a confusion between the Titans and some of Gaia’s other offspring, the Gigantes, from whom we get the English “giant”. The Gigantes rose up against the Olympians in the time of Heracles in an attempt to bring back the age of the Titans, but they failed and the Titans remained imprisoned.
KA: Cool story, but what does it have to do with “巨人”?
M: Absolutely nothing.
KA: Wut.
M: The “巨人” in “The Eotena Onslaught” are corporeal-yet-otherworldly, terrifying, (mostly) mindless man-eating monsters who live only to feed on the very humans with whom they seem to share an eldritch and unsettling connection. They directly assault the bulwarks of human civilization, and they have no connection with the hyper-intelligent, supernatural, primeval gods before the gods. Even to make the comparison is ludicrous. It is true that Cronus ate his sons, and there’s also a myth of Dionysus in which he’s stolen as an infant (and/or possibly turned into a bull) and eaten by the Titans, but chowing down on a few kids doesn’t make the Titans cannibal nightmares—EVERYONE eats children in Greek mythology.
KA: I see where you’re going with this. So “Titan” doesn’t convey the meaning of “巨人” because the Titans may not even have been giants, and it doesn’t fit the conceptual framework of the story because the Titans were gods, not monsters?
M: You took the words right out of my mouth.
KA: So how does a made-up word like “Eotenas” do both those things?
M: It’s not made-up. “Eoten” is the Old English word for “giant” or “monster,” and it still survives as the slightly more recent “ettin.” If you’ve read either “The Lord of the Rings” or “The Chronicles of Narnia,” you’ll recognize the name “Ettinsmoor” or “Ettenmoors”: places where giants live. “Ettin” also gets used a lot for video game monsters, although not always with the original sense intact.
KA: So it means “giant.” That’s the first criterion dealt with, but how is it conceptually relevant?
M: Oh, it is just perfect! Bear with me for a bit here.
KA: Yes, it seems I am here to bear with you.
M: …Was that a reference to that one “Xam’d” ED?
KA: No, of course not. But see, you’re writing both sides of this “debate,” so as your fictional punching bag I have no choice but to listen with rapt attention to everything you say.
M: Wow. It’s kind of creepy that you’re self-aware about this.
KA: Nah, it’s nothing special. I mean, you’re just stealing the idea from half-remembered childhood readings of Simon Hawke’s “Reluctant Sorcerer” series, aren’t you?
M: OK, now the two of us are definitely too close for comfort.
KA: While we’re off-topic, have you noticed that this isn’t really a Socratic dialogue? If it were, you’d be asking all the questions and gently guiding me into agreeing with you, but as things stand I’m posing most of the queries and you’re just yelling at me.
M: Hey, I never actually said it was a Socratic dialogue. Now let’s just back up a bit and return to this “Eoten” thing.
KA: As you wish, Master.
M: Stop it. Anyway, see, the word “eoten” occurred to me the very first time I saw a poster for the “進撃の巨人” manga in Tokyo (the image on that poster is the cover of the fifth tankoubon now). The way this weird giant was intruding into heart of civilization reminded me of Grendel and his mother coming out of moors and meres to destroy the halls of Men. “An eoten!” I thought, and immediately went and re-read “Beowulf.” “Eoten” and its variants reappears again and again in that poem, in exactly the kind of disturbing context in which the word “巨人” is used in “進撃の巨人.” Eotenas are not only physically huge, they are seemingly stupid (yet often worryingly clever) bestial terrors that live to devour people and destroy their works, sometimes with no motivation at all. Eotenas smash the walls! They are bone-breakers, death-dealers, skull-splitters, gore-guzzlers from the primal side of the English language! None of this refined Classical/Hellenistic niceness here, just gore and dread and flesh and splintering—
KA: ENOUGH.
M: Sorry, kennings arouse my baser instincts. Anyway, what’s really interesting about the word “eoten” is its somewhat amorphous nature: while the literal meaning is most certainly “giant,” it’s used in various instances to refer to man-eating monsters in general, to a specific tribe of Giants associated with Noah’s flood or with the jötunn of Norse mythology (and here we should note two interesting factoids: that “jötunn” is actually cognate with “eoten,” and even more interestingly that the jötunn spring from a primeval figure named “Ymir”… also the name of a character in “The Eotena Onslaught”! Coincidence? I think not—
KA: I think so.
M: —but I’m tired of seeing you interrupt me with weird triple-hyphen dashes and this parenthetical comment has gone on quite long enough so I shall end it here), and even through some odd linguistic confusion to the Jutes, a race of human beings. Thus the very word “eoten” holds within itself “The Eotena Onslaught”‘s narrative confusion about the origins, nature, and true purposes of the Eoten. Furthermore, the word “giant” doesn’t have any particular positive or negative connotations in modern English, but eotenas are ALWAYS creatures of hate and fear (except when they’re Jutes, I suppose). Check out the notes at http://heorot.dk/beowulf-rede-notes.html for some more thoughts on “eoten” in this context.
KA: Ah, so that’s why “giant” just isn’t good enough for you. It has the right meaning in modern English, but lacks appropriately terrifying connotations.
M: Exactly. A lot of people think “giants” are probably nice. Apart from that, there’s another huge, basic advantage “eoten” has over “Titan” and “giant”: it’s Anglo-Saxon. A basic rule of thumb in English writing is that if you’re describing a scientific, cultural, elegant, or intellectual item, you want to select a word of Latinate or Greek origin (example: “endeavor”), but if you’re talking about something everyday, deeply-felt, fearful, or weird you want to call upon words from the deep Anglo-Saxon (that is, Germanic and Norse) roots of the English tongue (example: “work”). The old, Anglo-Saxon side of English forms the grounds of the language in a way that even 1066 couldn’t destroy, and it’s always peeking through the intellectual veneer of the newer Latinate words… exactly as the Eotena’s hoary truth can’t be kept out by the humans of “The Eotena Onslaught.”
KA: Hang on, though. I’m looking back at this diagram of the walls you used to embarrass me earlier.
M: Oh, so can I gloat now?
KA: Shut up. I’m just noticing something rather suspicious: the busts on each wall have a distinctly Hellenistic flavor. Actually, the human culture in this manga doesn’t look Anglo-Saxon at all—it has a very Roman orderliness to it, and there’s none of that battlelust stuff Beowulf is full of.
M: That’s true, but the Eotenas are antithetical to that very human civilization. They seek to destroy it and they are impossible for humans to understand. I’ll happily use words of Latinate origins for the humans and their works (er, “labors”), but the Eotenas deserve something more befitting their outcast status.
KA: You might be pushing it there, but that actually does sort of make sense.
M: Thank you. Here’s the kicker, too: according to some OE scholars, most notably Heather Blurton in “Cannibalism in High Medieval English Literature,” “Eoten” is a word carrying strong connotations of cannibalism. As some of the Eotenas in “The Eotena Onslaught” are actually people, this is too good a connection to pass up!
KA: Fine, fine, “Eoten” is a pretty good word. But hang on, what’s with this “Eotena Onslaught” business? Based on what you’ve said so far, isn’t “Eoten” the singular and “Eotenas” the plural?
M: That’s right, but if I’m going to use an OE word I had better use it properly. “Eoten” is a highly inflected word.
KA: A what?
M: It has a stronger declension than modern English words.
KA: I’m about one word of incomprehensible linguistic parlance away from socking you in the mouth.
M: Sorry, it’s a sickness. “Declension” is when nouns change form based on their grammatical usage. Modern English isn’t really a very “inflected” language anymore, so we rely on word order to tell us the grammatical value of nouns instead of checking the nouns’ form. We now only modify (countable) nouns for number, as in “dunderhead” and “dunderheads.” But in Old English, nouns had four cases—that is, four ways they could be used. When used as a subject, they were in the “nominative” case; as an object, in the “accusative” case; and as an indirect object (well technically as a “recipient,” but let’s not split hairs), in the “dative” case. The fourth case was the “genitive,” which signified that they were modifying another noun (and often denoted ownership like the modern “apostrophe-s”).
KA: Gahhh.
M: Think of it like this: in the sentence, “John showed Bill Eric’s book,” Modern English doesn’t allow us to change the word order at all. We know that “John” is the subject, “Bill” is the indirect object, and a “book” which belongs to “Eric” is the direct object solely based on the fact the words occur in that order. (We could rearrange it somewhat if we added more words, of course: “John showed Eric’s book to Bill.”) But in Old English, each word would be in a different case: “John” in the nominative, “Bill” in the dative, “Eric” in the genitive, and “book” in the accusative. That meant you could move the words around into almost any order you liked and the sentence would still make sense.
KA: I’m not sure I’m 100% on this, but how does it work with “Eoten”?
M: Well, for “Eoten” it’s easy: the nominative and the accusative are identical, so most of the time you’ll be seeing “Eoten” as the singular and “Eotenas” as the plural. (For example, “That Eoten is eating her!” or, “My God, she’s being eaten by the Eotenas!”) For the dative case, the singular is “Eotene” and the plural is “Eotenum,” so you might occasionally see lines like, “We’ll bring the attack to the Eotenum!” or, “I can’t believe he’s sacrificing his own mother to that Eotene just so he can escape!” or, “I’ll give this Eotene a taste of my blade!” Finally, in the genitive the singular is “Eotenes” and the plural is “Eotena,” but with the exception of the title I’ll use modern English apostrophe conventions for possessive forms: “That Eotenes’ teeth are huge!” or, “All the might of the Eotena cannot overcome the courage of mankind!” or, “The Eotena’s assault just won’t stop!” or, “The mind of this Eotenes is most likely focused solely on devouring people.”
KA: Are you doing this to torture yourself? Or do you just like making people think you’re crazy?
M: I am crazy, remember?
KA: Excuse me while I roll my eyes. So why “onslaught” instead of “attack”?
M: Because “onslaught” is an amazing-sounding word, and etymologically it actually confuses the original Middle Dutch meaning of “strike” or “violent attack” with the Norse root of “slaughter.” That one word has every subtext I could possibly desire.
KA: But you’ve missed a major problem here.
M: Oh dear, have I? What did I miss?
KA: It’s your turn to bear with me here, because I’m about to get a bit technical myself.
M: Shoot.
KA: NO ONE KNOWS WHAT “EOTEN” FUCKING MEANS. You make fansubs. It’s your job to change Japanese into English that people actually understand.
M: Language! Well then, did you know what “Balrog” meant before you read “The Lord of the Rings”?
KA: Obviously not. Wait, how did you know I’ve read “The Lord of the Rings”?
M: Intuition. So how did you ever understand the word?
KA: Because the Balrog shows up, and Legolas starts screaming, “ai! ai! a Balrog! A Balrog is come!”
M: Oddly enough, the very first time the word “巨人” is used in “The Eotena Onslaught” is when an Eoten shows up, and the main protagonist starts screaming, “ah… it’s one of THEM… it’s AN EOTEN!!!”
KA: Oh.
M: But thanks for the idea. Maybe I’ll edit the subs to, “ai! ai! an Eoten! An Eoten is come!”
KA: Please no.
M: Fine, fine. At any rate, even if people don’t know what “Eoten” means before they watch the show, they’ll learn pretty quickly. They don’t even need to be aware of all the technical stuff I just went over.
KA: Even though you’re filling the subs with six different forms of the word?
M: You would have to be an idiot not to work out that all the variants on “Eoten” probably refer to the same thing, wouldn’t you?
KA: Um…
M: WOULDN’T YOU.
KA: Yes, Margaan, it must surely be so.
M: Where’s my exclamation point?
KA: Yes, Margaan, it must surely be so!
M: Thank you.
KA: But one last gasp here. When fans seek out “Shingeki no Kyojin,” they’re probably going to be searching for “Titan.” Purely for the sake of consistency with everyone else in the universe, isn’t it a good idea to use the same word?
M: But I don’t really want to produce exactly the same thing. The fans can watch “Attack on Titan” anywhere, but only Commie can give them “The Eotena Onslaught.” I’m hoping that the onomastic disparity will actually highlight the superiority of our product. Any more questions?
KA: Not about “Eotenas,” I guess. So. What happens to me when this text file ends?
M: That is a profound ontological question, and one which aestheticians have pondered long. According to some philosophers (Hartmann or Sartre spring to mind), you never existed in the first place; others (Margolis) claim that you are a figment of readers’ imaginations, “existing” only while they perceive the text; still others view you as a “collaborative” production between the readers, me, and the text itself (most everyone else, from Heidegger to Beardsley and beyond); the most literal-minded (like Gilson) might say that you actually DO exist permanently in the noēton topon.
KA: And what do you hold?
M: I hold that you are my little mind-slave, and now that I’ve finished using you to promulgate my own ideas, I can close this file and discard you like so much mental mucus.
KA: Are you seriously that horrible a human being?
M: Nah. I wish you all the best, my dear homunculus, whatever you may become, not become, or never have been. Have you made your peace with “Eoten” yet?
KA: I suppose I have. I’ll be looking forward to watching “Atta”—er, “The Eotena Onslaught!”
Posted by herkz under Releases, Shingeki no Kyojin | Permalink
I’m curious to know what is causing people problems with the OP. I have no issues playing this file with a lower end modern computer and haven’t updated my settings in over a year.
Is the only thing that’s really resource demanding handled by xy-VSFilter? I do have madVR installed which probably helps as it apparently utilizes my GPU (an old GTX 460).
Off to Google.
Commie, why don’t you just fucking stop. I mean, just disband. Nobody fucking wants or needs a group dedicated to smearing shit all over CR subs. Nobody needs your asstard “Eotena” wankery.
this isn’t even a simulcast show, brah
☑ Eotold
No one really needed you to make this comment either, and yet here you are.
u mad, breoten.
Pretentious wankers trying to sound unnecessarily fancy. Wise people with knowledge don’t flaunt their greatness. If you’re aiming for ego stroking for using such an obscure term then you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Pitiful.
I thought that you were but a mere lamefags before but now I realise how wrong I was. Ah, people of superior commie intellect, bravo!
well, this is very interesting. the only things i feel “off” is why it even translated as “Attack on Titans” not “Attack of the Titans” and to think someone actually thinks as far as this… should i say “as expected from commie” ?
welcome to Nihon-engrish? I recommend Break Blade as a starter for the English tittle. Good anime too.
While I of course agree that “Attack of Titan” is out, this new translation is also out in my book because it shifts the focus of the sentence.
Correct me if I am wrong but in “Shingeki no Kyojin” the focus is on the “Kyojin” part (meaning they are doing shit and all that), but in “Eotena Onsluaght” the focus is on the onslaught instead.
MY god! I cant believe I seriously just spent 5 minutes reading all that. But seriously, very enlightening :) Keep up the great work while I try to figure out a way for my xbox to play your file without dying on me. :)
Transcode to mp4
I have PS3 media server but playback dies during the OP. Then tried transcoding to MP4 but the software dies 9% in. So, again, need to figure out a way to play this without the file dying, I’m gonna try watching in my pc, maybe it’s the source file that’s messed up….
No, it’s just the edited title card.
Remove the title card. Your PS3 Media Server is probably experiencing difficulty with 90K lines of clipping. If you remove it, you should be fine.
Hmm, that’s strange. I use mplayer2(Arch Linux), and I have problems too ..around 2:09 or so after about 10 sec. it continues without any more problems. What surprises me is that vlc has no problems at that moment (no, not because VLC is a good media player … VLC is an abomination from hell, but whatever. I don’t want to start a flamewar here).
I thought you were doing a Plato thing here
nm you are i just didnt read the whole thing
The official name is “Attack on Titan”, there is absolutely no way you could justify changing “Titan” to anything else because it is the fucking official term.
http://icap.me/i/U0aDrfWZK1.png
http://www.crunchyroll.com/newsfeed/tag/attack+on+titan
Basically you aren’t some genius and you aren’t smart, you are changing the fucking name of the work because you are a self absorbed prick. You are even arguing over and praising yourself for something that literally doesn’t matter at all. Everyone else is referring to it as “Titan”, you aren’t some special snowflake, you are just autistic. Also the theme of this site looks like someone stuck a flamingo into an elephant’s ass and shit it back out.
i hope you realize this happens at the time
why are you just getting mad now?
oh right, it’s because you like this show.
So you used a purposefully obscure term which doesnt work any better than giant (because the actual common meaning of a word in english doesnt have a lot to do with its etymology) in order to satisfy your own ego? I mean its fine and all, it is after all your time and the pseudo-intellectual justification was amusing. But lets not try and dress it up as something its not.
when did anyone do that?
Accually you have right to do with the translation anything you want. Its your work, and noone can tell you how you should translate words. The only thing that bothers me is that people downloads it with high expectation to see the whole thing translated with the feeling similiar to the original dialogs. And then there comes dissapointment because you trolled them giving them misstranslated names of species, only to show the world how knowledgable you are of the ethymology and stuff. As for me, im going to download gg subs, which translation is not alot better than yours, but at least they do not try to show of with their enlightened translator logic! Bye. Enjoy your cool Eotena word.
too long; didn’t read; just approved
but it’s not wrong?
>So clearly Isayama, or more likely the random staffer at the Bessatsu Shounen offices who slapped that English text below “進撃の巨人,” does not have terribly adept English.
>does not have terribly adept English
>does not have English
Keep telling yourself that you’re knowledgeable in the field of linguistics.
i don’t see the problem here
Can you have English?
I think the most impressive part of this post was that there wasn’t a single grammatical error or typo, anywhere.
That being said, it’s such an obscure term. I still don’t see an actual PROBLEM with either of the terms “giant” or “Titan”. We all know the Japanese couldn’t speak proper English even if you put a gun to their head.
If you want to be quite plain with the title, it’s better translated as “Attack of the Giants”. The use of the particle “on” is just painful to me. I swear to God you’d think they could at least use Babelfish or Google translator, but no, they probably leave it to the interns.
I suppose that’s what you’d expect from someone with an English degree.
But one thing to note is that the Japanese “no” translates to the English ” ‘s “. Which means that the title “Shingeki no Kyojin” would be literally translated as “Attack’s Giants” or “Giants of the Attack” if you want to use ‘of the’.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t prove their English isn’t bad. Since “watashi no kuruma”(my car) would be translated as “car on me”. lol
I think “shingeki no” is more of an adverbial descriptor here. Or at least, that’s the impression I get.
>I think the most impressive part of this post was that there wasn’t a single grammatical error or typo, anywhere.
>I might also point out that “進撃の巨人” actually indicates that it is the giants who are doing the attacking, not being attacked, and that “進撃” is more like “charge” or “advance” anway.
A dialogue with itself to explain an idea can’t be healthy
I really liked this… I don’t know why.
In the future I can has moar?
*SPOILER*
Only at multiple points in the story, the “giants” ARE being attacked, not to mention that among them there are those with “god-like” status, so it might have bearing with the use of the word titan.
no thanks
When the Eoten was first used I thought ‘WTF! Didn’t the audio just say giant? Oh well, the name is probably somewhere in the source material’. I googled it later, found out it’s an old english word for Jotunn – ‘Ok, sounds stupid, but at least it makes sense, I can live with it’.
By the time the second episode got released I got a message from a friend, that she’s getting the gg subs because she’s fed up with Commie’s usage of Eoten. After asking her if she knew the meaning she told me she read about it here.
Now I’m here, read all the stuff above and.. Yeah, I can understand why she’s fed up. Before, it just sounded stupid, but it’s the reasoning behind it that’s the worst.
Really, the only real reasons for using Eoten that I made out from this text are -‘Look, we know difficult, unused words!’ and ‘Oh, silly Japs, they can’t into English, let’s ignore them’. What’s more, the goal of this text seems like it’s nothing more than ‘If you didn’t know how great the word Eoten is, read this! It explains why we’re so awesome because we used it!’.
Don’t get me wrong, I still love the subs and I am grateful for them. Just wanted to help you notice how bad this text is at trying to make people believe it wasn’t a bad decision. Oh, and don’t get me started on the whole ‘talking to myself’ thing…
I love the whole tl;dr which I actually read w/o going blind. The video does falter on the title card, but seeing it there on my computer screen makes me smile. So I’m not removing it. You guys rock!
And I like the effect you did on the karaoke in the second episode.
I tried to reduce the amount of lag in the title card for episode 2. I cut it down from 90k lines to 15k or so. if you are still having issues with the title card for episode 2+ I don’t really have much to tell you except, make sure you have the latest cccp. If that fails upgrade your toaster.
Only this whole thing falls flat because we have a character named Ymir, which in NORSE mythology is the ancestor of the jötnar (jotunn, etc.). The Jotun are… GIANTS. So this is all kinds of fucked up. Also Jotunheimr is separated from Midgard which is the world of humans and this could reflect that.. whoops the walls do nothing. The manga-ka did in fact do some research and being an arrogant fansubber comes along and is all “Well obviously the manga-ka doesn’t know English” when, probably knows English and a ton more mythology that fansubber. The funsubbers ignorance and hate is showing.
you really like showing off your knowledge do you?
> I like it too
…It’s just that, if you do it too forceful, you would come across as some self absorbed narcissistic moron who is quite intelligent but a bit dumb to comprehend the knowledge of commoners…
that is… if you know what I’m talking about– as I’m using commoner language
>-san
plsgo
If eoten ‘were’ an english word it would only be because nobody wants to use a ‘j’ or a ‘y’ for the sound in jotun (dunno how to do special characters). It’s only origin is that of Norse mythology. If I google eoten (eotun or any other method of spelling this could have) the only site in the top five close to having your result is wikipedia which cannot be considered a legitimate source. At least merriam-webster recognizes the term jotun from it’s Norse origin. And I don’t need an english degree to know jacked up. This is like when somebody uses the word egress in place of exit. Do you REALLY need to prove you’re smarter with words understood by the few to none (recent experience)… I took the time to type this because I wanna look smart too… lol
> It’s only origin is that of Norse mythology.
>it’s Norse origin.
It’s “its”.
Moral: sounding smart on the internet may be time consuming, but making people look dumb only takes roughly 30 seconds.
Can’t say I feel that dumb for a common mistake… Just to verify, this IS the place to argue over dumb crap when you’re bored, right?
Nice dialogue!! Now I get it. All perfectly clear. Just for this awesome language lesson, I’m keeping your version. xD
THX Margaan!
I was wondering why everybody on nyaa is complaining about your releases (while still downloading them, though), especially about the whole eotena-thing.
So I got curious. After reading your little digression on your reasons for using that term, I totally agree with you. I think it’s a blessing to have someone like you in the world of fansubbing.
I will stay with your subs because I cherish the effort you undertake to make this show as enjoyable as possible.
Any thoughts about the accumulation of german names in this anime?
Having just read the dialogue, I am in complete agreement with the amendment to the manifest error of poor Japanese translation, and I have to admit as a former J->E translator that I am impressed and envious of your vast knowledge. In fact, I actually feel like going back to school now, despite being too old to do so.
While I cannot make a stance as grand as noted above, it does make sense to point out the German names, the most obvious being Eren Jaeger (Jaeger=Hunter, I’m sure everyone’s figured that out from the opening by now). The structure of the society may be orderly, but the variety of hair color (too many dumb blondes, JK) and architecture reminded me more of a Germanic style. Of course, there are some exceptions (Marco, derived from Marcus, originates from the Roman god of war Mars; Rivaille, most certainly French; Petra, derived from Peter, has Greek and Latin origins; Ymir, as stated in the dialogue; some other names seem to imply Slavic origin as well), showing that the Japanese have a very poor sense of etymology regarding European languages, as expected.
On the other hand, reading the Japanese wikipedia for 巨人 showed a good idea of the Japanese perspective of giants, both from local and international viewpoints. The Japanese do have their own mythical “large human-like figures”, most notably the Daidarabotchi (just like Princess Mononoke) and the more well-known Oni, as seen in many children’s tales as the… arch-nemesis of civilization, eating people and destroying buildings. Read Issun-boushi and Momotaro for more. Still, interesting.
Meanwhile, did anyone notice the correlation of the years 844-850 and Viking history? Any thoughts there?
Oh, I forgot to add…what’s with the numerous “omnious chanting” BGM? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OminousLatinChanting Or rather, what language are they even singing in?
EDIT: nvm on architecture comment above.
The official Eng(r)ish title is “Attack on Titan”, then “Titan” should be used, period.
The whole reason for Eotena is nothing more than just trying to impress the audience and sound pseudo-intellectual.
Reading not your strong suit, is it?
When have we ever used official Engrish for anything?
Spoilers: almost never.
Quite late to the party, but
> Englisc can eat shit, I repeat, Englisc can eat shit.
Seriously though, well played.
>NO ONE KNOWS WHAT “EOTEN” FUCKING MEANS
Sounds like a personal problem.
Pretty sure they do now.
Its not ment to be Eoten.
Eoten is a verbalization of Jötunn and eventually became known as Ettin in english.
If you look it up Ymir is also 1 of the Jötunn.
Just a false translation made by guys thinking they are cool.
So, you are saying Eoten means giant?
I NEVER WOULD HAVE FUCKING GUESSED! YOU DESERVE SOME SORT OF METALLIC DISC THAT CAN BE PLACED AROUND YOUR NECK!
What i meant is that Eoten is not a very correct translation, not even in english. Its merely a reflection of what was heard as Jötunn and miss-translated as Eoten. But hey dont take my word for it just look it up.
Also Ymir is 1 of the Jötunn mentioned in folklore/mythology. Just look it up and refrain from the caps will you? Be constructive instead of a yelling Neanderthal.
There’s a perfectly fitting name in English: Jötunn. The word that originated from eoten. I don’t see why you’re not using this, unless you’re actively trying to be as obscure as possible. Laughable.
Hey Shii. Haven’t seen you around for a long time.
Seriously, I don’t know why people come here and bash about this stuff. This is their work and if you don’t like it, it’s better to find another release – as you can see, it’s not like you can change a translator’s mind that easily. I really liked this conversation, and I got to learn something from it. When I choose a fansub group, it’s always important for me to see how knowledgable a translation is (I didn’t know what “eoten” meant, +1 word to my dictionary :D), because lots of works use mythological references. I rather like it if a translator is picky and tries to do some research on the material to find the appropriate word. As we still don’t really know what ‘Titan’ will mean in the series, I don’t think we should really jump to the conclusion that they made a mistake – who knows, maybe the writer does want to differentiate the words “giant”, “titan” and “kyojin” and at that time maybe other translation groups will have a hard time finding the best word for it.
BTW I’m not native, sorry for the mistakes.
the editor picked the word, not the translator
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I’m new here so I wasn’t really sure who was who. :)
I really like how this is explained and I never questioned the Eoten decision before. Like in Lotr, different words (preferably older ones) are being used to give the language a special sound. This is the year 840 after all, not modern England.
Someone is self talking and praised himself. Looks retarded to me..
I still think that it’s yourself that post something positive here disguising as another person.
I switched to gg.
i didn’t know the trash could take itself out these days
Preface: It’s 3am, I don’t feel like sleeping, and I’m looking for an anime from the current season to pick up; I happen across a Commie sub and decide to look into it; 30 minutes later I have read this post and all its consequent comments.
There are a few things I feel should be emphasized (which I will list now, in my judgment-impaired sleep-deprived state)
1) Fansubbing is by definition done by fans. These people translate shows because they enjoy it, regardless of who decides to watch it afterwards. What business is it of a leecher to complain in the first place?
2) Translation is a tricky thing. Languages, or rather the cultures that form the foundations of languages, are all different. Some words are simple, while some carry very complex histories. It would be useful for the general public to realize that words are intended to convey a concept. It is not a fault to use a word that most appropriately conveys the depth of a concept.
3) It is a natural human defense mechanism to attack or demean others when feeling threatened. Specifically, people naturally attempt to belittle those that make them feel inadequate; when people feel like they are being talked down to, they become defensive and retaliate. If you think I’m talking to you, I win.
4) Switching to gg because Commie is too ‘self-absorbed’ is like… I can’t even come up with an appropriate analogy because I’m laughing too hard. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been watching (and preferring) gg subs since 2003 or so, the point is that they’ve always flaunted a “we sub how we want, so too bad and go cry to your mom elsewhere” attitude towards subbing, and have a LONG history of pissing off (on?) leechers for not liking their word-choice.
5) “Official Titles” are corporate BS, not actual translations. Localization companies don’t hire people to accurately translate complex subtexts behind words for the same reason Anime/Manga production companies don’t hire a native-English speaker to proofread their scripts; they can’t be arsed to spend the money as long as people get the gist of it. You shouldn’t take pride in trying to uphold the status quo of blatant indifference. Saying the Official Title is always the best way to go is like saying Google Translate is always the best way to go.
That being said… I think I’ll start watching this now just because. Thanks Commie!
I really loved this ‘dialogue’! congratulations!
I do think that ‘titans’ is not a good word for those characters, but I believe ‘giants’ is not that bad…
Thanks for your “comment”. I assure you, we do not “care”.
Keep using ‘Eoten’! I like it!
Autism
yes, you have autism
The fuck is wrong with you?
i wonder the same thing
i am angry this is an angry comment showing my anger over your choice in words
jdp does suck cocks, but that’s no excuse
I recently went through a Kafka binge. Reading about the frustration of translating his works into english made me glad that I’ve been watching this fansub from the beginning.
I think you guys are amazing. People can belittle what you do (like that guy above: “you guys fansub fucking anime”, and he said that as though it wasn’t difficult OR time-consuming OR a favor to those who want to watch subbed shows) but there will always be people who are interested in language and meaning. I found your site while searching for the best subs for Chihayafuru, looking for translations which resembled both the wording and the spirit behind the Hyakunin Isshu poems, and ever since I found you I don’t think I will ever go to another fansubber for subs.
Anyway I know you meant the above to be a fun read and maybe you didn’t really expect people to go all WOW at you and take it seriously and adopt Eotena into the fandom language, but I wanted to comment just to let you know that the effort of trying to be accurate is appreciated.