Never claimed it was, at any point. Comprehension 101.
My comment about you guys adding awful localisation is based on watching Zombie Deskcar. Although now that I think about it, maybe it came from the CR script and wasn’t edited out. Regardless, it shouldn’t be there.
I haven’t watched your Lupin release. If it’s using gg’s final script, it’s probably rubbish. If it’s using the raw translation, and you’ve used that as a base, then maybe it’s good.
I’m the editor for Zombie and there’s no CR script, it’s our own translation.
If you have issues with how I handled the script then list specific examples and I will explain the reasoning behind them. Otherwise, quit whining. We didn’t really localise anything in Zombie outside of like, Haruna’s tongue-twister in episode 2 so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about in the first place.
gg’s Lupin script is also anything but “rubbish” given that it was done by probably the best fansub translator currently active. Or semi-active, anyway.
I’m not gonna bother going through the entire show and making a list, but I will give one example because it stuck out like a sore thumb.
It was the translating of ‘Aikawa-san’ to ‘what do you want’. I can understand why you did it, but I completely disagree with the reasoning. If an anime viewer can’t understand the meaning behind a friend adding an honorific, then they need to learn or stop watching. A much better way of translating it, imo, would have been ‘Aikawa-san’ with the san bolded or italicized or something; enough to draw attention to it but not change the line entirely. Needless to say, I also disagree with the localization of Aikawa’s response.
And again, to reiterate, gg’s raw translation may have been amazing; i can’t prove otherwise. However, after the raw translation goes through the editing process or whatever process, it turns out as complete shit. This has been true of pretty much any recent gg release, and I presumed it be true for their Lupin script also.
That’s not localisation, just translation (you know, what fansubbers do). Translation is never a word-for-word affair, it’s about taking the intent (or actual meaning, if you will) of the dialogue and bringing it across so that the viewer can understand it without having to know Japanese or understand the significance of, say, using “san” when you normally wouldn’t.
At Commie we don’t take the easy way out by just leaving untranslated words in our scripts, and if I had just rendered that conversation as “Aikawa.” “Aikawa?” it wouldn’t have made much sense. Even with your approach, I’m sure there would be some viewers who would misinterpret it or not really grasp the full implication.
There’s also no mystical property of names, or the words attached to them, that makes them immune to translation. There are numerous occasions where I’ll either remove names from the script or convert them to pronouns if I feel the sentence reads more naturally in English that way. You wouldn’t expect any other aspect of the translation to be done on a word-for-word basis, so why expect it here?
As far as I can see you don’t even disagree that the translation was accurate, so it seems like your objection stems purely from a desire that anime should be somehow educational and that you need to know various Japanese words to understand it. I disagree.
>However, after the raw translation goes through the editing process or whatever process, it turns out as complete shit. This has been true of pretty much any recent gg release, and I presumed it be true for their Lupin script also.
No, Lupin was actually edited quite well (or maybe didn’t even need edited at all because blakbunnie is amazing). Maybe you should actually watch gg’s release instead of just assuming they always localize shit because it makes you look stupid.
I guess I don’t subscribe to the same translation dogma as you do. I believe things should be kept as literal as possible, and editing is there to smooth the rough edges and provide flow. When a translator is drastically changing lines, they’re re-writing the show rather than translating.
The line you added isn’t technically wrong, but it’s one of many interpretations that one could take from the scene. By narrowing it down to what you did, you’ve simplified and removed the breadth of the exchange.
I don’t believe it’s the easy way out to leave things untranslated (or perhaps I should say unlocalised). Keeping true to the source material, and making a watch-able translation isn’t easy. Old eclipse is a good example of a group who I felt did this well.
Unrelated note: This discussion reminds me of a SZS episode, heh.
@herkz I guess I’m just unlucky and picked the only script in a long time that has been done well. On the balanced of probabilities it’s a safe assumption to believe a gg release is sub-par. I haven’t heard good things about their E7 script either.
I can understand why you’d believe that, but any time you translate anything you’re applying your own interpretation to it, regardless of how literal you think you’re being. Translation is an art, not a science, and there is no way to make a completely “transparent” translation and have it still make sense.
If you really want the experience you’re after, the only way you’re going to get it is to learn Japanese yourself. An Eclipse-style translation still won’t offer you that, even if you think it does.
There are different degrees of interpreation, and deviation from the source. While it may be impossible to translate a script so that the watching experienced is identical to being a fluent jap speaker, you have relatively degrees of closeness. Eclipse, for me, came the closest. In my opinion, some of your localisations (I’m still sticking to the idea translation is different to localisation), are just superfluously narrow and at some times down right misleading. When I say misleading, I mean misleading compared to the original dialogue.
Keeping things as close to their raw translation as possible, leaves it open for the viewer to make their own interpretation; which is how the all mediums should be viewed. They shouldn’t have a needlessly localised interpretation forced upon them.
If someone didn’t understand why ‘Aikawa-san’ was important, they could google it or make a thread on /a/ and shit it up. Regardless, they would be a more learned watcher after some investigation. Note that I’m still not convinced that if you added italics to the san, that a large majority of people would be confused. I think the majority would understand.
>Keeping things as close to their raw translation as possible, leaves it open for the viewer to make their own interpretation; which is how the all mediums should be viewed.
This is nonsense. There is nothing at all ambiguous or open to translation in the line you’re arguing about, nor is the translation we have ambiguous. You simply cannot assume that a translation will have any relation to what was in the original Japanese apart from conveying the meaning / intent of the script.
>If an anime viewer can’t understand the meaning behind a friend adding an honorific, then they need to learn or stop watching. >If someone didn’t understand why ‘Aikawa-san’ was important…
“I know what -san means. I think everyone should know what -san means and what calling a person -san implies in terms of the complex rules of social standing in Japanese culture. Therefore, I feel this must be left un-translated because the regular anime viewer will benefit from knowing this. However I don’t know any other Japanese because, contrary to my own advice, I’m not really learning Japanese. So please be sure to translate everything else into English.” Do you want kanji subs instead? I’m sure you as well as the regular anime viewers would benefit greatly if we taught you all Japanese through fansubs.
But dude, don’t you know that ~dearimasuka preserves the meaning of the original Japanese script and anyone who watches anime would know what it means anyway
so what you are saying is your native japanese translator is better than sage’s native japanese translator? or are you just bashing sage for the hell of it? because both translators are japanese first english second so wouldn’t it come down to which translator could make their script sound less engrish-y? meaning the so called translation errors come down to making said script less engrish-y.
But don’t penalize me for living in Georgia, bro. That’s just not fair. I’ve only been living here for less than a year. You know I’m a native New Englander.
Also both my TLC and I just shook our heads at episode 1, the drug thing made it all wacky. However, episode 2 was solidly within my comfort zone and I’d challenge anybody to find a mistake in the translation there.
If things keep going in that vein, we will pull out a good translation every time.
Heil Kommie. Too bad I’m not interested in Lupin as I’ve not read the manga or watched the previous anime.
Neither have I and it’s still great.
Lupin doesn’t have an overarching plot. This one is newbie friendly too.
Watch this anyway, or else you are a gigantic homosexual.
Yay! Was wondering if any group was gonna take over for gg… Just how different is Ep1 from gg’s release (in other words, is it worth redownloading)?
Thanks!
Name order + song styling I’d guess.
So probably not.
Not worth redownloading. The script is barely touched.
“Lupis”.
It’s Lupus.
So, do you plan on saving the last episode of Last Exile for an anniversary or something like that or whats keeping you?
I overheard them in IRC saying it’ll be a nice christmas present ;p
>Script shamelessly reappropiated from gg
Nigga at least rip a decent script, e.g. sage’s script.
Hahahahahahaha
Oh wait you weren’t joking, let me laugh harder.
Seriously though, sage’s script is riddled with translation errors.
So what you’re saying is gg have good translations; they just fuck it up with awful editing and localization later? Makes sense I guess.
Although you guys have been adding abhorrent localization recently, so maybe you think their final script is better too.
Those words don’t mean what you think they do, you should stop using them.
Localisation could possibly be wrong, since subbers/watchers have given it a meaning of its own. The rest is perfectly fine though.
Sure is ad hominem in here.
Translation != localization though.
Yeah, sure is ad hom.
Never claimed it was, at any point. Comprehension 101.
My comment about you guys adding awful localisation is based on watching Zombie Deskcar. Although now that I think about it, maybe it came from the CR script and wasn’t edited out. Regardless, it shouldn’t be there.
I haven’t watched your Lupin release. If it’s using gg’s final script, it’s probably rubbish. If it’s using the raw translation, and you’ve used that as a base, then maybe it’s good.
I’m the editor for Zombie and there’s no CR script, it’s our own translation.
If you have issues with how I handled the script then list specific examples and I will explain the reasoning behind them. Otherwise, quit whining. We didn’t really localise anything in Zombie outside of like, Haruna’s tongue-twister in episode 2 so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about in the first place.
gg’s Lupin script is also anything but “rubbish” given that it was done by probably the best fansub translator currently active. Or semi-active, anyway.
I’m not gonna bother going through the entire show and making a list, but I will give one example because it stuck out like a sore thumb.
It was the translating of ‘Aikawa-san’ to ‘what do you want’. I can understand why you did it, but I completely disagree with the reasoning. If an anime viewer can’t understand the meaning behind a friend adding an honorific, then they need to learn or stop watching. A much better way of translating it, imo, would have been ‘Aikawa-san’ with the san bolded or italicized or something; enough to draw attention to it but not change the line entirely. Needless to say, I also disagree with the localization of Aikawa’s response.
And again, to reiterate, gg’s raw translation may have been amazing; i can’t prove otherwise. However, after the raw translation goes through the editing process or whatever process, it turns out as complete shit. This has been true of pretty much any recent gg release, and I presumed it be true for their Lupin script also.
That’s not localisation, just translation (you know, what fansubbers do). Translation is never a word-for-word affair, it’s about taking the intent (or actual meaning, if you will) of the dialogue and bringing it across so that the viewer can understand it without having to know Japanese or understand the significance of, say, using “san” when you normally wouldn’t.
At Commie we don’t take the easy way out by just leaving untranslated words in our scripts, and if I had just rendered that conversation as “Aikawa.” “Aikawa?” it wouldn’t have made much sense. Even with your approach, I’m sure there would be some viewers who would misinterpret it or not really grasp the full implication.
There’s also no mystical property of names, or the words attached to them, that makes them immune to translation. There are numerous occasions where I’ll either remove names from the script or convert them to pronouns if I feel the sentence reads more naturally in English that way. You wouldn’t expect any other aspect of the translation to be done on a word-for-word basis, so why expect it here?
As far as I can see you don’t even disagree that the translation was accurate, so it seems like your objection stems purely from a desire that anime should be somehow educational and that you need to know various Japanese words to understand it. I disagree.
>However, after the raw translation goes through the editing process or whatever process, it turns out as complete shit. This has been true of pretty much any recent gg release, and I presumed it be true for their Lupin script also.
No, Lupin was actually edited quite well (or maybe didn’t even need edited at all because blakbunnie is amazing). Maybe you should actually watch gg’s release instead of just assuming they always localize shit because it makes you look stupid.
I guess I don’t subscribe to the same translation dogma as you do. I believe things should be kept as literal as possible, and editing is there to smooth the rough edges and provide flow. When a translator is drastically changing lines, they’re re-writing the show rather than translating.
The line you added isn’t technically wrong, but it’s one of many interpretations that one could take from the scene. By narrowing it down to what you did, you’ve simplified and removed the breadth of the exchange.
I don’t believe it’s the easy way out to leave things untranslated (or perhaps I should say unlocalised). Keeping true to the source material, and making a watch-able translation isn’t easy. Old eclipse is a good example of a group who I felt did this well.
Unrelated note: This discussion reminds me of a SZS episode, heh.
@herkz I guess I’m just unlucky and picked the only script in a long time that has been done well. On the balanced of probabilities it’s a safe assumption to believe a gg release is sub-par. I haven’t heard good things about their E7 script either.
I can understand why you’d believe that, but any time you translate anything you’re applying your own interpretation to it, regardless of how literal you think you’re being. Translation is an art, not a science, and there is no way to make a completely “transparent” translation and have it still make sense.
If you really want the experience you’re after, the only way you’re going to get it is to learn Japanese yourself. An Eclipse-style translation still won’t offer you that, even if you think it does.
There are different degrees of interpreation, and deviation from the source. While it may be impossible to translate a script so that the watching experienced is identical to being a fluent jap speaker, you have relatively degrees of closeness. Eclipse, for me, came the closest. In my opinion, some of your localisations (I’m still sticking to the idea translation is different to localisation), are just superfluously narrow and at some times down right misleading. When I say misleading, I mean misleading compared to the original dialogue.
Keeping things as close to their raw translation as possible, leaves it open for the viewer to make their own interpretation; which is how the all mediums should be viewed. They shouldn’t have a needlessly localised interpretation forced upon them.
If someone didn’t understand why ‘Aikawa-san’ was important, they could google it or make a thread on /a/ and shit it up. Regardless, they would be a more learned watcher after some investigation. Note that I’m still not convinced that if you added italics to the san, that a large majority of people would be confused. I think the majority would understand.
“Keeping things as close to their raw translation as possible” makes for some incredibly shitty subs.
>Translation is an art, not a science, and there is no way to make a completely “transparent†translation and have it still make sense.
Well, not unless you’re a pro and as good of a writer as whoever wrote the original (which may not be hard in the case of shitty anime).
>Keeping things as close to their raw translation as possible, leaves it open for the viewer to make their own interpretation; which is how the all mediums should be viewed.
This is nonsense. There is nothing at all ambiguous or open to translation in the line you’re arguing about, nor is the translation we have ambiguous. You simply cannot assume that a translation will have any relation to what was in the original Japanese apart from conveying the meaning / intent of the script.
>If an anime viewer can’t understand the meaning behind a friend adding an honorific, then they need to learn or stop watching.
>If someone didn’t understand why ‘Aikawa-san’ was important…
“I know what -san means. I think everyone should know what -san means and what calling a person -san implies in terms of the complex rules of social standing in Japanese culture. Therefore, I feel this must be left un-translated because the regular anime viewer will benefit from knowing this. However I don’t know any other Japanese because, contrary to my own advice, I’m not really learning Japanese. So please be sure to translate everything else into English.” Do you want kanji subs instead? I’m sure you as well as the regular anime viewers would benefit greatly if we taught you all Japanese through fansubs.
@Arnavion
That’s some impressive straw-man skills you’ve got going on there.
@johnny_dickpants
Not really. Eclipse’s subs were great. And remember I said ‘raw as possible’, there is inevitably going to need to be smoothing of rough edges etc.
>Eclipse’s subs were great.
They weren’t even English half the time so I don’t think that’s true.
>They weren’t even English half the time so I don’t think that’s true.
That might be true of their recent zombie releases. But when they were an active group they were top notch, imo.
Anyone who would seriously and willingly put “~dearimasuka” or whatever that shit is in a sub is not “top notch”
But dude, don’t you know that ~dearimasuka preserves the meaning of the original Japanese script and anyone who watches anime would know what it means anyway
http://static-subs.com/forum/index.php?topic=3210.0
IT WAS USEFUL, SEE?????
jesus christ how horrifying
Yes, and none took place. There’s nothing to localize in Lupin. Have you even watched it?
You’re an idiot. Just saying.
Do you have any idea who translated it for gg?
I most certainly don’t!
blak tl’d it for gg
fucking jewkey
The thing is, I actually did realize I knew soon after posting the comment
so what you are saying is your native japanese translator is better than sage’s native japanese translator? or are you just bashing sage for the hell of it? because both translators are japanese first english second so wouldn’t it come down to which translator could make their script sound less engrish-y? meaning the so called translation errors come down to making said script less engrish-y.
>sage’s native japanese translator
>white american woman who lives in georgia
>native japanese translator
yeah sure thing bro
You forgot “fat ugly fujoshi landwhale loser”.
But don’t penalize me for living in Georgia, bro. That’s just not fair. I’ve only been living here for less than a year. You know I’m a native New Englander.
Also both my TLC and I just shook our heads at episode 1, the drug thing made it all wacky. However, episode 2 was solidly within my comfort zone and I’d challenge anybody to find a mistake in the translation there.
If things keep going in that vein, we will pull out a good translation every time.
Good luck with your Funi latecast.
Sincerely,
Fujoshi in Georgia
You seem awfully upset over nothing.
She’s platinum mad.
There were a couple questionable lines in 2, but I don’t think it’d be fair to blame you for 1.
Also everything north of I-84 is basically the South. Just sayin’.
>New York City
>Basically the South
“ok”
i don’t think anything you just said is actually correct
Whyyy would you pick this up with so much else already on your plate? This series isn’t even all that Lupiny, just a bunch of TnA.
Because the two people working on it (me and Csiko) don’t have anything else to do on Friday. This won’t make any other show slower at all.
can’t you just build a time machine like you usually do and sub episodes in advance? :D
>don’t have anything else to do on Friday
>choose to fansub
commie_dedication.flac
>implying I have anything else I could be doing
>commie_dedication.flac
If you find a hentai named “dedication” let me know. This file will be made.
You guys are my heroes.